Massdrop x Apogee Takumi AUS-10 Kiritsuke Knifesearch
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Massdrop x Apogee Takumi AUS-10 Kiritsuke Knife

Massdrop x Apogee Takumi AUS-10 Kiritsuke Knife

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Stickied
Hey everyone,
We’ve seen a huge growth in both Blades and Cooking communities over the last year, so we partnered with Apogee Culinary Design, one of the most popular brands among members. The goal of the 8” Vital Chef’s knife was to serve members who are already home chefs with a quality, utilitarian blade, but also help members who are just getting started in the kitchen to have an all-around tool that be comfortable and easy to use, and help them to enjoy learning new skills.
Based on the discussion in that first kitchen knife collaboration, we recognized there that a lot of members who were already enthusiasts of blade steels and cooking tools were interested in other collaborations. So, in our second collaboration with Apogee Culinary Design, our aim is to serve more established chefs with a knife that is just as utilitarian in the right hands, but requires a bit more experience to fully appreciate. The ten-inch blade is 25% longer than the Vital, and the handle is lighter and slimmer - in confident hands, it’s an absolute joy to work with, but it’s a bit large to be “the only knife you need” or “the perfect knife for beginners.”
Although the Gyuto (chef), and Petty (paring) as well as the new Santoku style (meaning “three virtues”) have become very popular in recent years, most traditional Japanese blade patterns are designed for very specialized tasks: the Usuba (single-bevel) and Nakiri (double-bevel) for cutting vegetables, Deba for fileting small fish and poultry, and designs dedicated specifically to cutting cabbage (Kyabeshikiri), carrots (ninjinkiri), eel (Unagisaki), tuna (Magurokiri), bread (Pankiri), noodles (Sobakiri), etc. or even peeling chestnuts (Kurimuki). This Kiritsuke blade shape is, according to many people, the only traditional Japanese shape that is a hybrid blade - meaning that it serves multiple purposes - cutting vegetables, and slicing proteins.
While we do recommend hand-washing, the blade’s Japanese AUS-10 steel core with a kasumi-style, impact-welded cladding in SUS420, is fully stainless - as opposed to many high-end Japanese knives, which use non-stainless, high-carbon steels that can discolor if they are not rinsed and dried fairly quickly and often during food prep. Here’s a bit more info regarding the steel and some relevant comparisons (AUS-8 and VG-10). http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelgraph.php?nm=AUS10%2CAUS8%2CVG10&ni=875%2C874%2C643
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A few housekeeping notes: * This drop is limited to 1000 units. * The magnetic bamboo sheath is included on this drop. It will be available in future drops as an option (+ $20). * Our estimated ship date is July 31st, 2018.
I will be available to answer any questions before the drop launches, thanks for checking it out and to everyone who helps to make this possible!
Carry On - Jonas
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I really like differential hardening. It's a personal thing, since I like a bit of old-world techniques (when materials weren't as good, so they had to come up with creative and time consuming ways to optimize what they had to make a good tool)
personally, i'm going to make a high carbon steel knife set for myself. really like that stuff, since it requires care and maintenance, which promotes good knife habits in the long run. (unlike cheap throwaway stainless steel knives)
JonasHeineman
Honestly it looks like you just roughly googled up information about Japanese kitchen knives and spat it out in 5 minutes without any understanding behind the information, especially what parts were incorrect. Apart from your awkward attempt to mention every kind of Japanese knife (seriously you coulda stopped that long list early on), you don't realize that the Kiritsuke is a single-bevel knife, while this knife is a double-bevel knife. This is what would be known as a Kiritsuke Gyuto, or a Gyuto 'styled after a Kiritsuke'. It's quite more of a western thing to style general-purpose chef's knife with the Kiritsuke's shape. Also the Kiritsuke is a hybrid between the Usuba, a type of vegetable knife, and the Yanagiba, a fish fileting/slicing knife. Also, the Gyuto and Santoku styled knives have always been popular in Japan. If anything, Santoku's are the most popular style in Japan - Kiritsuke's are generally used by professionals. Santoku also refers to the fact that the style is useful for proteins, fruits, and vegetables. It also ambiguously refers to the three tasks it's best at - slicing, chopping, and dicing, making it the most useful and popular knife for home-cooking. Not to mention the Usuba is a single-bevel blade, but it's literal meaning is 'thin blade'. The Kiritsuke is also a single bevel blade.... Similarly with the Nakiri, means 'vegetable-cutter'. The fact that it's a double bevel knife does not have anything to do with it's name. I'm sure that what you meant with the Usuba and Nakiri was that they are both vegetable knives with the key difference being the bevels, but you don't have parallelism with the way you tried to give 'definitions' or 'western comparison' to the earlier mentioned knives, being the Gyuto, Petty, and Santoku knives. A petty knife is not a paring knife.... Also it's quite insulting that you'd mention how high-carbon high-end Japanese knives will discolor if not cleaned, while failing to mention the fact that the durability and edge retention of those Japanese knives are generally leagues above 'stainless steels'. Those knives are meant for people who will take care of their knives - stainless steel knives are for those who just want to toss their knife into a dishwasher after use without caring, and that's by no means a strength even if you want to word it as one. Ahh that was a well-deserved rant.
Stickied
Hey everyone,
We've seen a couple comments here about gaps between the tang and handle opening, but we don't see any photos of them here and only have two support tickets for any kind of defect. It seems like this has only affected a handful of units, but we'd really like to see photos so that we can understand this issue and address it for individual members with refunds or replacements as needed, and/or present our vendor with this info so we can address any warranty issues.
We've also seen a few members expressing dissatisfaction with sharpness. This is also something that we checked for during QC, and I was able to shave with any part of the edge on all the units we inspected. I've also been using mine at home to cut paper-thin slices of cucumber, tomato, and other veggies. If yours wasn't this sharp, I can understand how that's disappointing. While we do want every product to be perfect out of the box, if yours is not as sharp as you think it should be, Apogee does offer free lifetime sharpening which they do by hand here in the US. You can contact them directly (sglassen@apogeeculinary.com) or contact support and we'll help you to get that done.
Our understanding from speaking with industry experts is that a 3% return rate is expected for most kitchen knives. So far, we have 2 support tickets out of 580 units sold. We do see the comments and reviews, and I think I've addressed all of them, but we really need members to contact support and provide photos so that we can evaluate them in context and truly understand if the problem is minor or major and what percentage of members are affected - we absolutely will act on the community's behalf in holding vendors accountable, but we can't do that unless we have the support tickets and photos to show them.
So if you are among the 570ish people who got your knife and are enjoying it, that's great and we'd love to get your comments and reviews as well. If you're among the 10ish people (so far) who are not happy with your knife, then definitely send a support request so we can get you sharpening or a replacement or refund, and also report any issues to the vendor with some facts to back up the claims.
Thanks for helping us to make sure we are delivering what we promised and what you expected, and also for making sure that Massdrop and our vendors are both accountable to the community. -- Jonas
CC: @Benjabooly @Suitepotato @Keepod @Hygaard @method_burger
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Jonas, honestly, should I send in a ticket. I am a butcher and have cut raw meats with this knife after sealing the gaps with beeswax and have since removed it and not used it since these images. If that is past warranty I 100% understand and will just add beeswax again. Thank you for your support, and I know I just have bad luck getting the worst end of most knives (spyderco is my least favorite brand after my experiences with them if that says anything about my luck) so its nothing against massdrop.
Thanks, I'll consider that, since I may want to turn this into a fun project lol.
Also, something to consider, you might want to do like a 'first 100 batch' early shipment (like a month before the bulk shipment) because I'm sure the massdrop community would not mind doing free QC for you!
Which one of the Apogee series knives is the best "all around" kitchen knife? I mostly use my kitchen knives for chopping vegetables and to slice meat off the bbq pit. I am in the market for higher end kitchen knives and I love the look of the apogee line.
hey guys, I got this knife after the first drop and it came with a bamboo sheath and inside the sheath there was a small piece of plastic to protect the tip of the knife. I lost the plastic and was wondering if there some way to get another one. thx.
The Japanese don't make their knives in factories. Japan arguably has the greatest artisans in the world, especially true when it comes to knives and swords. They never have issues with this kind of terrible quality.
Ventace
Actually, they do. Japanese knives have an almost legendary quality, but it isn't always true. It's true there are some master blacksmithes who do things in an entirely traditional way to produce a handful of mastercrafted knives per year, the way anime and movies have led us to believe. The fact is these masters are few and far between, with their creations costing into the thousands. This same caliber of maker exists in the states, and all across europe as well. There's nothing particularly special about it, Japan just has a mysterious aura attached to it due to it being "the far east" and thus semi-magical.
Do you think the average japanese household is using these mastercrafted tools? Hell no. They're in the hands of professionals and collectors, not the average person who's as likely to touch one as you or I. The average person is using mass produced units, no different then americans do with wusthof/henckels. Frankly, most german style knives have superior F/F to japanese knives. The budget end of the japanese market ($100-200) has rampant issues with unevenly ground bevels and handles that are either poorly made, poorly finished or poorly fit, of the sort you'd never hear about on a $50-80 german knife. You can browse a place like kitchenknifeforums or any other popular jknife forum if you want to see examples. It's to the point where those enthusiasts have taken to including potential fixes for problems that the knives commonly come with when they recommend knives to people looking for suggestions. In essence, the various flaws that japanese knife factories produce have been accepted as route by their western consumers.
In short, japan does not magically produce all of their knives from the wizened hands of a sensei who learned on top of a mountain and produces one knife every 2 weeks. They use factories the same as any other country, and Seki City is famous for this.
What style of knife you buy ultimately comes to what you want from it, and what you want to do with it. German knives are all arounders, meant to do everything fine and nothing exceptionally. They use a softer steel and because they're produced in higher quanities also have a more refined process and better quality control resulting in a more consistently better product with inferior perfomance. Japanese knives are precision instruments for specific tasks, barring a few knife styles. They excel at what they're designed at and falter for tasks outside of that specific swimlane. They have harder steels and oftentimes better cutting geometry but are commonly plagued by terrible quality control and finishing.
Just got my Takumi in the mail today, Heavier than I thought it would be, the finish is a little different than what is shown in the picture, I ran through some veggies today with it with no issues, I'll be taking it to work in a couple days to see how she goes.
I was happy to find none of the issues I have read about on the board had occurred with my knife (blade is sharp and has no uneven finish, handle appears to be correctly attached to the blade) I will throw some pictures up shortly.

Edit: Looks like I spoke too soon, the handle has the usual gap seen elsewhere here....
@AveryC Hi Avery, I was just wondering if the recording of the demo with Chef Xin was available yet?
Also I was wondering what the exact process would be with getting the knife sharpened by Apogee? I am located in Australia.
Thanks!
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I checked in last week, it was being edited and I think we'll be sending out that info in the next week or so.
We just sent the video out via email. Hope you all enjoy it!
Where is my knife? I ve been waiting for three month. And now its missing. Unable to track my shipment as well. Get me the knife or give my money back plz.
As mentioned in my review, the knife gap in images.
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You can see on my unit the gap between the handle & blade is significant.
Suitepotato
Just put some epoxy in the gap and call it a day.
JeffHu
Absolutely! Why wouldn't I want to put toxic chemicals on my knife...I mean, what could possibly go wrong? Food grade wax works just fine, thank you.
Hello, after reading the comments here I took a look at the knife that was sent to me and it has both the gap at the handle and blemishing on the blade itself. What would be the next step for me? This was purchased as a gift for a friend and thus far I’m displeased with the quality of the product.
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Or he could try to use the customer service and try to let the company fix it before just giving them the metaphorical finger.
Benjabooly
When customer service makes government bureaucracy seem efficient, you have to exercise leverage. Some people like to compromise, some don't.
And still no disclosure that these are made in China in the item details. Funny that stuff made in the USA and Japan have those details clearly displayed.
Japan is mentioned FOUR times in the item description/details, China is mentioned ZERO times. Misleading? You decide.
I am kind of upset, since AveryC said it would be 1-2 week heads up for the class but I got my email the night of exactly 1 week prior. Less than one week is not enough time for me to request a day off from work, which I would need to do to be able to attend. The live class was a part of why I bought this knife.
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That's not the point. Companies pull this kind of thing all the time. It's a lot easier to believe that it was intentional to not take questions even though that was promised. If you want to make good on it you will host another session where those live questions can be taken.
SantiagoDraco
There are a lot of things that are "easier to believe", and that is why for 4000 years people believed each animal and plant just appears from the gods out of nowhere
After reading the reviews, I could never feel good pulling the trigger on this purchase
Wide gap between blade and handle. THIS IS AT HEALTH HAZARD LEVEL. Cannot safely process food as leftovers, which will require cleaning by toothpick after every use, will easily get stuck at the gap and lead to bacterial growth.
There is NO way this knife was designed by someone who is mindful of food safety
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Is sheath included in this drop? No recent comments No info about sheath on overview page.
A bit more info please. Where it made?
Thanks
Ip068
i can see bamboo sheath is additional $20
it was free in previous drop.
homeless
Thank you
I received my knife and at first glance I was impressed. I read some comments here and decided the knife was in need of a closer look. I started making chopping motions with it and noticed the blade moved with my motions. It is not secure in the handle, moving about 1/16” up down left and right. There is indeed gaps where the handle meets the blade. When I loosely wiggle the knife I can also hear the blade clank against the handle. It could be easily fixed, heck,
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I could probably slap some glue down, but ultimately the knife is not solid and not safe. I’ll try and get some pics up
wish I could get a “wiggle pic”
Hi everyone, We have an update on the status of the Massdrop x Apogee Takumi AUS-10 Kiritsuke Knife. Unfortunately, there was a slight delay in finalizing production and we now estimate the knives will ship to members in mid-August. We apologize for this delay and we’re working with the team to get them shipped as soon as possible. If you don’t want to wait the additional time for them, you can cancel your order via the transactions page: https://www.massdrop.com/transactions. Thanks so much for your patience. We’ll be back with another update in mid-August to confirm that everything went out as expected.
I was really anxious to receive my knife after reading some of the comments posted here by people who had received theirs a couple days ago. Mine just got delivered today and to my great relief it is definitely not as bad as other have made it seem (could just mean that I'm very lucky of course...).
The blade edge was consistently sharpened all the way down the length of the blade, and as far as I can tell the angle was consistent too. Is it the sharpest knife I have ever used? Definitely not. However, as factory sharpness goes, this was not bad at all. In addition to this, my blade came with a tip guard.
Another thing people were commenting about was the gap between the handle and the tang of the blade. However, on my unit there is not even the slightest gap or any sign of glue residue to be found. The handle itself also looks and feels very nice.
Unfortunately, there are some slight (read minor) issues that I do want to point out... - There seems to be some weird residue/stains along the length of the blade (both sides) that at first glance looks to be glue. However, after some vigorous wiping with a damp towel it does not come off. I don't want to bitch and moan about it too much, but it's just annoying because I'm sure it could have been buffed out at the factory.
- The mosaic pin in the handle looks kind of crappy on my unit. There are bits of debris (dirt or some other crap) stuck in each of the little rods inside the pin, which makes the whole thing look kind of messy. What was supposed to be an elegant feature on the handle, just looks unrefined...
I'm still really happy with the knife and I'm sure I'll enjoy using it. I think I got quite lucky with the quality of my knife in comparison to other people. But that also shows how inconsistent the production of these blades is. Like others said, the quality control of these products needs to be much better.
I was really hoping I didn't have to note things about this knife like others, but I really have to. Let me start off with the 3 Ferrum Forge x Massdrop knives I've gotten are some of the nicest folding knives I own, not at all by dollar value, so I assumed safe in joining this. Since people started receiving it, there were mixed reviews but of course you cannot tell until you handle it yourself. Sadly me biggest issue is the seam where the blade meets the handle, its a hole with glue. I work as a butcher and this, I am certain, would not conform to NSF standards in staying clean and not having inclusions for bacteria to grow. My Damascus pattern is only visible though the separating lines of the steel, some of which are cloudy blurs that look like weird scratches, not lines, with no or very little color difference. The heel area of my blade is also poorly sharpened in comparison to the rest. Im sorry that the manufacturing didn't hold up to the great expectations, massdrop. It is a beautiful design, that with a bit more weight in the handle and better fit and finish would of surpassed any other knife at this price point. I wish you genuine good luck in the aftermath, CS team.
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I would have to agree with the Damascus finish not looking as nice as the model used in the advertised photos, my unit also has the poorly defined blurry pattern with some spots looking like a weird glue blemish. That being said, I'm also in the same boat wondering if this is similar to how natural wood product finishes vary significantly as I've never owned another Damascus blade.
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Benjabooly
I also have the huge gap as noted in my review. That plus other things... make this a very disappointing purchase.
Was just delivered and I'm totally disappointed.
It doesn't come close to other "real" knives that I own from Shun or Global. It is super thin, has inconsistent edge work (not equally sharp across the blade), delivered with fingerprints on the blade, craptastic plasticy handle... It's like a $20 infomercial knife.
Learned my lesson, will only buy drops for real branded goods.
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Sorry that your unit didn't meet expectations, but thanks for letting us know and I will try to address each of your concerns...
First, I can assure you 100% that we would never intentionally ship a flawed unit to anyone, much less a specific member, for any reason. Aside from being totally against everything we stand for, it wouldn't help us at all to knowingly send a flawed unit to someone we think is likely to post negative comments. And, even if we wanted to, it would be logistically almost impossible the way our warehouse is setup. We're certainly aware that Chinese manufacturing generally has a QA reputation to overcome, but we evaluate each manufacturer on their own merits and are selective in choosing partners - that's why we work with WE Knives and Reate but not
Second, check the box for your tip protector - we have seen on a few QC units that it slipped between the layers of foam. In the future, we'll ask the vendor to glue those layers together so that's less likely to happen. Thanks for the heads up.
Third, our vendor did a QC inspection on site at the factory and we did one with random units in our office, and neither of us picked up this issue you're describing - but that doesn't mean you're wrong or didn't get a bad unit, just that we didn't see it and have no reports in our system (aside from comments here, none of which have photos) which makes it very hard to know how serious or widespread an issue we need to deal with.
I'd like to see a photo of the gap you're talking about (preferably in a support ticket), as we've seen one or two other comments about that but we have zero support tickets for this issue so it's hard to know if your knife looks like those we pulled from the warehouse for QC or different. If we can see these we can understand the severity of the issue and offer you a solution, and we can also show these to the vendor to make sure that, if there is an issue, we know how many people were affected and hold them accountable.
So we do appreciate you holding us accountable, and ask for your help in sending us pics in a support tickets so that we can evaluate it in context with our other support tickets and act accordingly. Thanks -- Jonas
JonasHeineman
Hi Jonas,
Thank you for taking the time to reply. My comments about getting a bad unit on purpose were mostly sarcastic/tongue-in-cheek. My original ticket has been resolved, I think, and if necessary I'll open a new ticket, or otherwise add a photo of the gap.
I did not capture any photos of the different edge angles (and widths) before I began honing. My apologies.
I will echo the sentiment by some that the brass uhh...thing...on my unit is...not perfect. I can get pictures of this.
Thank you, Suitepotato
mine arrived today. i will post some photos later
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This knife was worth the wait. It is beautiful and blazing sharp out of the box. I like the size. It is going to take over from my 40 year-old Sabatier 10" Chef knife. I love the magnetic sheath, for putting it away safely would not be easy without it. Certainly the Kiritsuke style is widely useful and practical.
Now that the units are starting to ship, I was just wondering if there was any way to watch the demo given by Xin Zhou? (I'm assuming it was shown during the live Q&A session which I missed)
Also, how would one go about getting the knife sharpened for free? Asking because I am located in Australia.
Thanks in advance!
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Ah that is quite unfortunate, I never received an email for that, would of loved to be there.
Hi Avery, just wondering if you could also tell me the process for getting the knife sharpened by Apogee if I am located in Australia?
Thanks!
Am I the only one questioning the magnetic sheath? While it sounds like a cool idea, as a professional chef and general knife enthusiast, magnetizing your blade is actually a bad idea. Certain cooking procedures produce an ionizing process that can make preparing them "interesting" and it also makes sharpening/honing/stropping/maintaining the edge in general more of a chore than it needs to be, as the steel shaving and particles congregate directly on the edge. I personally think that part should be rethought, as it really isn't a good idea.
Also, the grind seems a little thick in the photos, especially with nothing shown for scale. 28° inclusive seems a little wide for a Japanese styled knife, 15-20° inclusive would be more the norm. Would the thickness behind the edge as well as blade stock measurements be made available?
Is this single or double bevel?
pyeekzero
It's a double bevel edge - from the Specs: "Edge angle: 14º (28º inclusive)"
I've bought the yaxell-fusion here https://www.massdrop.com/buy/dragon-by-yaxell-fusion and it weighs 9.7 oz (275 g). It's too heavy for me. This one is 9.3 oz (264 g). Almost same weight. Even though it looks amazing it's definitely not for me.
OlivierPons
Are you interested in selling the Fusion on?
Massdrop has (since it's inception) a bad habit of ignoring repeated questions regarding their products. Not sure if it's a case of just not knowing, or just not caring to reply. My first purchase... semi-pricey watch was a good one, but the really great deals seem scarce lately, Imo. This appears to be another "meh" deal.
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Jonas, I purchased a Porsche Design watch about 15 months ago. Over a series of a few days I asked where the watch was being shipped from, and whether it had any manuf. warranty. I asked through the discussion forum as I recall, as well as by email to your customer service dept. Never did get any replies. Perhaps your CS dept. was new at that time, or understaffed ? I didn't have any questions about this knife sale. Just my observations as a buyer in general. Thanks for your response, in any case.
hsdriver
its been happening to me as well. 3 email follow ups, no response. Its with particular support technician. I had James C. And after 1.5 week he eventually responded and just palmed me off to the manufacturer about my order query. Even though Md as the third party need to take responsibility as i have no direct contract with the manufacturer. It seems like with particular support technician (James C), his attitude and approach is not giving a damn after taking your payment
Is this full tang and battle ready?
darkpanacea
Yes and heck yeah!
I really like this. but I would love to have that extra space between the knife and the hilt for my index finger.
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This picture best describes that small extra space between the knife and hilt.

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steve.v
This picture best describes how to hold a knife properly. Holding a chef knife any other way suffers from a serious lack of control (i.e. holding it like a drumstick) and your cuts will suffer from your lack of technique. I'm really not sure what you mean by having space for your index finger because from your description is sounds like you don't hold a knife properly. Your index finger and thumb should be pinching the blade around the base of its spine with the rest of your fingers curled around the handle.
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The grind is looking quite thick from the photos :/ Namely from the close up of the heel, and look at all those damascus layers traversed so close to the edge. Can we get some more detailed measurements?
I wish I had access to all these Japanese knives before purchase, but I don't. Online shopping sure is a.... double edged sword :D ruined the comment, didn't I.