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Showing 1 of 931 conversations about:
Sonido
64
Oct 30, 2015
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On a side note I just thought of something. If you guys "defending" massdrop are truly doing this for their sake and not just because you want a shot at a prize, you could fund these prizes instead of massdrop and because then you would be considered a non profit entity, this would be a legal raffle. But I doubt any of you would do this. Look deep into your heart and ask yourself do you defend this for the best interest of massdrop or yourself? As for myself, I openly admit I wouldn't mind a free entry, but I would hate it if massdrop lost their business over this and I won't be reporting them. That said, I've never joined one of these grab bags because I have no use for the main items, the iems, and I wouldn't join just for that chance at a bigger prize. However, I've read complaints of others regretting participation after winning two pairs of the cheapest earbuds and it only takes one disgruntled customer to report them. Therefore, my primary concern now is to make sure massdrop knows what they are doing and the risks involved. And if the solution is an alternative method of entry, then it's a win-win for us all. Honestly, businesses run legal sweepstakes all the time and it helps their business. I see no reason why massdrop wouldn't do it as well. I would hate to see them get fined due to not knowing the law when it seems their intent is honest and that if they knew the law, they would have ran a legal sweepstake.
TWD-Industries
303
Oct 30, 2015
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SonidoHeavier sigh.
Very well, we'll look at your statute, let's all play legal:
"319.3. (a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in one or more, but not all, of the grab bags. (b) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply: (1) "Sports trading card grab bag" means a sealed package which contains one or more sports trading cards that have been removed from the manufacturer's original packaging. A "sports trading card grab bag" does not include a sweepstakes, or procedure for the distribution of any sports trading card of value by lot or by chance, which is not unlawful under other provisions of law. (2) "Sports trading card" means any card produced for use in commerce that contains a company name or logo, or both, and an image, representation, or facsimile of one or more players or other team member or members in any pose, and that is produced pursuant to an appropriate licensing agreement." - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=319-329
Looking at the letter of the law, these are not sports trading cards, and are thus excluded from this, the only mention of grab bags by lottery law definitions in the state of California.
Looking at the spirit of the law, this was still based on the non-value of opened and repackaged trading cards. People who ran the contests were taking sealed card packages, which have a legal value, opening the seal, scooping out the contents (probably eating the gum), grouping common cards together, and then selling those with the enticement of winning a rare card. This is a grab bag in which the MSRP of the lowest price item is greater than the cost of the grab bag, thus you are always getting something of value in the eyes of the law. The fact that some think duos are worthless they'll have to take up with MEE Audio's MSRP (I thought they were fine for the price).
As many times as you may refer to this as a raffle, sweepstakes, or lotto, it very much is none of those things.
Very well, we'll look at your statute, let's all play legal:
"319.3. (a) In addition to Section 319, a lottery also shall include a grab bag game which is a scheme whereby, for the disposal or distribution of sports trading cards by chance, a person pays valuable consideration to purchase a sports trading card grab bag with the understanding that the purchaser has a chance to win a designated prize or prizes listed by the seller as being contained in one or more, but not all, of the grab bags. (b) For purposes of this section, the following definitions shall apply: (1) "Sports trading card grab bag" means a sealed package which contains one or more sports trading cards that have been removed from the manufacturer's original packaging. A "sports trading card grab bag" does not include a sweepstakes, or procedure for the distribution of any sports trading card of value by lot or by chance, which is not unlawful under other provisions of law. (2) "Sports trading card" means any card produced for use in commerce that contains a company name or logo, or both, and an image, representation, or facsimile of one or more players or other team member or members in any pose, and that is produced pursuant to an appropriate licensing agreement." - http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=319-329
Looking at the letter of the law, these are not sports trading cards, and are thus excluded from this, the only mention of grab bags by lottery law definitions in the state of California.
Looking at the spirit of the law, this was still based on the non-value of opened and repackaged trading cards. People who ran the contests were taking sealed card packages, which have a legal value, opening the seal, scooping out the contents (probably eating the gum), grouping common cards together, and then selling those with the enticement of winning a rare card. This is a grab bag in which the MSRP of the lowest price item is greater than the cost of the grab bag, thus you are always getting something of value in the eyes of the law. The fact that some think duos are worthless they'll have to take up with MEE Audio's MSRP (I thought they were fine for the price).
As many times as you may refer to this as a raffle, sweepstakes, or lotto, it very much is none of those things.
Sonido
64
Oct 30, 2015
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TWD-IndustriesI'm no lawyer so I don't know if it becomes legal because the cheapest prize is worth more than the entry cost, but again this is about raising awareness to massdrop, not whether I'm right and that this is illegal. I'll be perfectly happy if an admin replies and says everything has checked out and they know what they're doing. I was thinking about those grab bags woot had that you earlier mentioned. In those there were no advertisement of a potential high value prize, as there is here. Perhaps that's what made it legal? Again not a lawyer
Sonido
64
Oct 30, 2015
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TWD-Industrieshttps://www.massdrop.com/buy/magic-card-grab-bag
https://www.massdrop.com/buy/magic-6-card-grab-bag
Not baseball cards, but they've sold open packs of magic cards with varying amounts of value. If you look in the comments some people say certain packs are worth more or less than what they were selling for. In one even the vendor mentions these are open packs. So perfectly fine because it's not baseball cards?
TWD-Industries
303
Oct 30, 2015
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SonidoSeems much riskier to me, sure. It doesn't particularly bare on this offering, but I would certainly pull my collar over it if I were MD and you were trying to raise attention in those MtG drops.
In any case, I feel I've explored the subject from all angles to my satisfaction. It's been interesting. Thank you for the counterpoints. I recommend you contact Massdrop directly if you want their word on it and they aren't responding fast enough.
Something, something, relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/386/
In any case, I feel I've explored the subject from all angles to my satisfaction. It's been interesting. Thank you for the counterpoints. I recommend you contact Massdrop directly if you want their word on it and they aren't responding fast enough.
Something, something, relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/386/
AkumaKurono
347
Oct 30, 2015
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SonidoSo you say you're not a lawyer yet you try to justify yourself so hard to get a free entry for this drop to have a free pair of more expensive headphones? You're clearly not making it good for yourself when you originally stated that you wanted to be entered for free. Then you go on explaining how it's "illegal" for MD to have this when you admit you're not a lawyer. What makes you think that they don't know what they're doing? There has been 3 past drops similar to this and all went through successfully and you're not the only one that thought about the legalities of this drop.
So please, do keep trying to justify yourself even more, you'll just dig a bigger grave for yourself.
So please, do keep trying to justify yourself even more, you'll just dig a bigger grave for yourself.
Sonido
64
Oct 30, 2015
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AkumaKuronoSo you're saying everything is fine until you get caught? Haha I made that joke earlier. Actually that's more evidence that perhaps they need better lawyers, if they're the same ones that allowed those MtG drops. Again I've already admitted that at first I wanted a free entry, but now it's beyond that and just about raising awareness to massdrop. Others like @TWD-Industries have given valid counterpoints that perhaps my concerns are unnecessary, that massdrop knows what they're doing. And I've made examples of past MtG drops that seems very close to violate a California law that shows maybe massdrop is oblivious to the legal ramifications. I have already admitted to that at first I did want a free entry, but later explained that now I care for giving proper awareness and I have used evidence and logic of past MtG drops and that big companies make sweepstakes mistakes as well that maybe massdrop needs to be made aware and actually doesn't know all the laws. At this point, I don't even care for a free entry anymore. To be honest, if they open up an alternate means to enter through snail mail, it would be too much effort for me to bother. If you have any other points, please go ahead, but let's try to keep this civil and logical, and not driven by what's in your best interest or what you believe should be the law. Your logical basis that it's okay just because massdrop has gotten away with it so far is rather naive.
rishychacko
5
Oct 30, 2015
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SonidoThis should clear things up. And yes, they are in the right. http://sarafhawkins.com/contests-and-sweepstakes-law/?utm_content=bufferb3f3c&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Sonido
64
Oct 30, 2015
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rishychackoNot sure where in the article it proves this is legal. If you mean #6 it's more about minors and foreigners (which isn't addressed here either). You can even argue there's no official set of rules for this, and in the past I remember they raised the number of total entrants once it reached max from 4000 to 5000 (check Danny's comment on page 10), which would break #2. Again, if they can prove this isn't a sweepstakes or lottery, then it would be perfectly legal.
Feyted
11
Oct 31, 2015
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SonidoLook mate, if you were really concerned, you wouldn't be posting here with this people and instead be trying to get in direct contact with Massdrop and their legal team to go over everything. Your efforts would be best used there instead of trying to convince other people who have no say over what Massdrop does. If you are doing this in addition to posting here, then cool, but if not you're just gonna keep coming off as stubborn and someone who would be best ignored.
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