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Showing 1 of 211 conversations about:
AndreasHellman
13
Jul 31, 2017
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HD6XX incoming. This, the 02+ ODAC, or the Schiit stack? Pro/Cons?
David_R
110
Jul 31, 2017
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AndreasHellmanOthers are going to have more info for you, but I asked myself the same question and here's what I concluded. First, I was deciding between the O2 and Schiit. The consensus I found from reviews, user experiences, and actual comparisons (on head-fi, youtube, etc.) was that they both provide very good, clean sound, but the Schiit does so at less cost. I was still leaning toward the O2+DAC in a single unit, but I ultimately opted to go for separates in case I wanted to mix and match in the future. So for me that meant Schiit over Objective. Then, I ended up with the Topping A30 and D30 due to price, additional I/O, comparable sound, and because I prefer to have the controls on the front (Schiit has them on the back). But I gave up Made in USA hardware and a better warranty. Good luck making your decision!
Ostewart
246
Jul 31, 2017
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David_RI've only had the topping and O2+ODAC, and I would take the O2 amp over the A30 if you don't need the power output from the A30, the O2 has slightly better SQ.
But the A30 is still very very clean sounding, I just think the O2 is slightly better sounding.
Now for the DAC, I would take the D30 over the ODAC, but I prefer my OL DAC over the D30.
The sound differences are small and you cannot go wrong with either stack (A30/D30 or OL DAC/O2 Amp)
Now for the DAC, I would take the D30 over the ODAC, but I prefer my OL DAC over the D30.
The sound differences are small and you cannot go wrong with either stack (A30/D30 or OL DAC/O2 Amp)
Heefty
1387
Aug 1, 2017
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AndreasHellmanYou're not going to beat this DAC for the price. The amp is another story... You're better off spending a little more on that to get something higher quality.
datyeti
45
Dec 20, 2017
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AdrianLcompared them both. I preferred the OL dac, but sdac has one extra 3.5mm output. It wasn't a major difference, felt like the OL dac was probably up to 10% better tops at best on random songs and parts. It just sounded a little more accurate and had a slightly more blacker background, but it is an unfair comparison since it is a more expensive wall powered vs usb powered. I only used usb port on ol dac too btw. Go with whatever you need most! If you're interested in a sdac let me know, I don't need mine anymore.
datyeti
45
Dec 20, 2017
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HeeftyWhy do you think this amp is not worth it?
This amp is very good quality, feels just as rugged and high quality as my O2 amp. Sounds slightly better too. Although that may be from the higher headphone port output impedance which could slightly alter sound, but that is the only concern one could have with the amp.
This amp is very good quality, feels just as rugged and high quality as my O2 amp. Sounds slightly better too. Although that may be from the higher headphone port output impedance which could slightly alter sound, but that is the only concern one could have with the amp.
Heefty
1387
Dec 20, 2017
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datyetiWhen I wrote that the amp was too weak to drive the HD6XX properly. It appears that they've changed it up a bit since the specs are not what they were then. The new output specs look much better.
O2 is too weak for HD6XX as well.
O2 is too weak for HD6XX as well.
datyeti
45
Dec 20, 2017
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HeeftyIdk about earlier versions of the A30 amp, but for most of 2017 the specs haven't changed and the O2 is also more than capable of powering the hd 6xx. I use both, A30 and O2 with 1x/3.3x, and hd 6xx is not that hard to drive. Maybe I have really good hearing, but can't go past 10/11 o clock with lowest gain settings on both amps with hd 6xx's, it starts to get almost painful. My t50's are a little harder to drive, but can't go past 1130/1230 on lowest gains. The magni would probably have the same results if I had one.
Heefty
1387
Dec 20, 2017
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datyetiYou're mistaking loud for properly driven and they are not synonymous. I can make them loud with my phone, but that doesn't make them properly driven. You need to be able to hit at least 250mWrms to drive HD6xx. O2 can't hit that peak. The new specs for the A30 look acceptable. I want to say that previously the A30 could only do ~160mW but that's based on memory.
I'm not concerned with dial positions nearly as much as I'm concerned with the calculations you have to do to make sure your amp is sufficient for your load, and the ensuing harmonic distortion you get when it's not.
I'm not concerned with dial positions nearly as much as I'm concerned with the calculations you have to do to make sure your amp is sufficient for your load, and the ensuing harmonic distortion you get when it's not.
datyeti
45
Dec 20, 2017
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HeeftyDidn't have luck finding any old A30 info, maybe they had an A20 or something who knows. A phone would suck more than amps, as an amp would be an improvement in all regards not just power.
The current A30 has 291mw x2 at 300 ohms from 1/4 jack. The 3.5mm has 258mw x2 at 300 ohms. Both on high gain. In both cases its more than adequate to power the hd 6xx. The O2 may not have as much power, but if it sounds 95% or more the same, how does being properly driven really matter that much? Not trying to debate, would like to see math and explanation or link if possible.
What other amps have you used that bring it to full potential? If its something like $300+ then of course it'll sound a little better as its not a budget design and has more engineering inside not just power.
And, I'm curious, what other dacs have you used? I've thought about getting this d30, and would like to know how it compared to others. Heard nothing but good stuff besides a few driver issues.
The current A30 has 291mw x2 at 300 ohms from 1/4 jack. The 3.5mm has 258mw x2 at 300 ohms. Both on high gain. In both cases its more than adequate to power the hd 6xx. The O2 may not have as much power, but if it sounds 95% or more the same, how does being properly driven really matter that much? Not trying to debate, would like to see math and explanation or link if possible.
What other amps have you used that bring it to full potential? If its something like $300+ then of course it'll sound a little better as its not a budget design and has more engineering inside not just power.
And, I'm curious, what other dacs have you used? I've thought about getting this d30, and would like to know how it compared to others. Heard nothing but good stuff besides a few driver issues.
Heefty
1387
Dec 21, 2017
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datyetiO2 should work fine for low volumes. HD 6xx actually works well at low volumes. I actually prefer it to some higher power amps. The clipping won't happen until the high V transients in the track are pushed near to or right at the output V level of the amp. As with all things, if it sounds good to you, go with it. It doesn't meet my standards though. I can clearly hear the difference and it's bothersome to me.
For similarly priced amps I use 2 that I built myself for around $100 all inclusive, one of which is slightly modified from what is basically a kit (http://pmillett.com/butte.htm), the other is a completely custom design. I like the modified butte the better than anything I've heard for less than Massdrop sells the Heron 5 for. I just boosted the power rails to +/- 18V ( different regulators, higher V rated caps, higher V rated TVS), upgraded the electrolytic caps (Nichicon UFG), and lowered the gain from 11x to 8x. It's a thing of beauty now, with plenty of overhead. When I figure out a good way to replace the volume pot with a good one it'll be even better. Even in the stock config you'll find on the website it is miles better than anything else I've heard for HD6XX at that price point.
As for the D30, it is a tad cold and more analytical than ODAC or OL DAC. But it is not much and it supports DSD and higher sample rates than ODAC or OL DAC which I do use. If you don't use >96kHz or DSD, the ODAC and OL DAC are slightly more natural sounding but I must emphasize that it's very slight. I use the D30 with my modified Butte as my daily driver at the office and have no complaints about the setup for what it is. I listen to far fewer DACs than I do amps though, so there might be something for less than $300 that would be better, but I can't imagine it being so much better as to warrant the additional expense.
For similarly priced amps I use 2 that I built myself for around $100 all inclusive, one of which is slightly modified from what is basically a kit (http://pmillett.com/butte.htm), the other is a completely custom design. I like the modified butte the better than anything I've heard for less than Massdrop sells the Heron 5 for. I just boosted the power rails to +/- 18V ( different regulators, higher V rated caps, higher V rated TVS), upgraded the electrolytic caps (Nichicon UFG), and lowered the gain from 11x to 8x. It's a thing of beauty now, with plenty of overhead. When I figure out a good way to replace the volume pot with a good one it'll be even better. Even in the stock config you'll find on the website it is miles better than anything else I've heard for HD6XX at that price point.
As for the D30, it is a tad cold and more analytical than ODAC or OL DAC. But it is not much and it supports DSD and higher sample rates than ODAC or OL DAC which I do use. If you don't use >96kHz or DSD, the ODAC and OL DAC are slightly more natural sounding but I must emphasize that it's very slight. I use the D30 with my modified Butte as my daily driver at the office and have no complaints about the setup for what it is. I listen to far fewer DACs than I do amps though, so there might be something for less than $300 that would be better, but I can't imagine it being so much better as to warrant the additional expense.
datyeti
45
Dec 21, 2017
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HeeftyThanks for the in depth answer! I like the millet stuff, don't have a soldering iron and time to start his projects but it's some of the first ones I want to do for sure. Interesting dac info. Never tried DSD and probably never will bother, and don't care for stuff over anything usb class 1 as drivers can be a pain. The OL DAC is very nice, I use one.
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