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SharpEdge ZDP-189 Bunka Kitchen Knife
01 / 05
SharpEdge ZDP-189 Bunka Kitchen Knife
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Product Description
ZDP-189 is a specialty steel typically reserved for high-end pocket knives. Here it plays the starring role in a Western-style kitchen knife inspired by Japanese tradition Read More
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keyboard_arrow_downNipp
20
Apr 12, 2019
@sharpedge I want to try to get this knife to "competition"-level sharpness. Yet, I want to use it, very carefully, in daily jobs. I don't want to convex it.
So, what geometry can it safely take? Lowest I can go is 6DPS.
Thank you.
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
May 27, 2019
Hi @Nipp,
Thank you for sharing your feedback now that you got to use the knife a bit longer! We're glad to hear constructive feedback, either good or bad, but it's always nice to hear someone else likes the knife we designed! :)
We're also happy to hear your misses uses it a lot - that's a great sign of a good knife! "Happy wife, good knife", hahaha :P. The showing off can indeed create small chips, but it's good to know they are already fixed!
All the best,
Grega
Kavik
5531
Jul 26, 2019
Oooof. You let drunk guests play with $200+ kitchen knives?
Lol pick up a Victorinox for those occasions 😜
lukisan
11
Nov 9, 2018
Hi guys,
I see there is an interesting debate happening that I can miss:) I am a professional full-time sharpener at SharpEdge and I sharpen daily a lot of different knives, also a lot of ZDP-189.
In fact, I gave this Bunka to my wife last year and I can explain some simple facts. First, about the brittleness. It is brittle, and my wife would be the first to tell the tale, as she doesn't care much about the proper usage. She opens cans, cuts through bones, basically all the things you shouldn't do.. :) Probably because I can (and do) repair her knife all the time..But still. comparing it to other, shirogami and similar steels, it's actually not so terrible, like VG-10 or so. The knife is still here and holds an edge:)
Sharpening - I sharpen the Bunka by hand on whetstones, steel rods are out of option (think ceramic rods), but on stones, there are no problems. With normal sharpening stones of medium/high quality and basic sharpening knowledge, there are no issues sharpening it.
20% of Chromium should be more than enough for normal steels to get it pretty much stainless, but with powder steels, like ZDP-189, it's a little bit different. With normal use, this Bunka will not develop a patina. In more extreme situations it can get a very light patina, but only with chefs like my wife, who truly ignore all knife maintenance tips.
Let me give an example. My wife's Bunka got some small spots after cleaning the fish on the beach in a bucket full of a salty water, and then she left it overnight not wiping or cleaning it at all !!!:( Also, after cutting a large number of lemons, we didn't clean it too... But don't worry, I just cleaned the knife and rubbed it with a cloth and it was nice and shiny again. In short, we abused the knife and we didn't get to see it rust.
And one more thing about the ZDP-189 steel and its performance. I sharpen all the knives from our kitchen arsenal, but this black beauty stays sharp looong. Very long. And that's the beauty of powder steels! Try it.
Luka
kangster
85
Mar 20, 2019
lukisanthis deserves way more up votes. im surprised that you're ok sharing the cons of the steel given your job and that makes the review a lot more valuable (and the steel less scary). thanks!
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
Mar 21, 2019
kangsterThanks man! Yeah, there's no perfect knife so it's important to share both the pros and cons so potential new customers know what they're getting. ✌️
pendle616
51
Mar 21, 2019
I’m a huge kitchen knife geek. Have spent and sold thousands in my search for the best. That search ended awhile ago, but that’s another story. One thing I will say is that ZDP is a pain to sharpen. And it will need sharpening. No edge lasts forever. No matter the steel or HRC. Besides that though... why isn’t there more defining shots of the spine/distal taper(if there is one, and there should be btw. Distal taper effects performance greatly...), choil shots, tip shots, and handle circumference specs? The spine is dreadfully thin for sustained comfort over long cutting periods if one is utilizing a pinch grip. I’m guessing it’s ground so thin as to give the illusion of better performance- the ‘drop through product’ effect. Without the above pics and a better idea of the grind, this seems like a ridiculously over priced knife across the board. I can think of a number of readily available kitchen knives in this range of specs, from respected Japanese makers, that are much cheaper and will presumably outperform this in many respects.
(Edited)
pendle616
51
Dec 21, 2019
Regarding direct competition, in that respect you’re just flat wrong. There are many reputable makers that produce knives of this quality with the kurouchi style finish and bunka blade shape in Japan alone. The kurouchi finish is also much cheaper and easier to accomplish as it requires far less finish work on the blade face. Another mark against this knife price-wise.
Kavik
5531
Dec 24, 2019
pendle616Sadly, the ease of labor that comes with the kurouchi finish doesn't stop just about every manufacture from charging a premium for it, because they know it's a style many want
Still hoping you might share some of the knives you had in mind when making the below comment?
"I can think of a number of readily available kitchen knives in this range of specs, from respected Japanese makers, that are much cheaper and will presumably outperform this in many respects."
Kavik
5531
Nov 9, 2018
@sharpedge
Can you clarify a couple of things from the description for me?
"Western-style kitchen knife inspired by Japanese tradition"
Since the shape of the blade and handle are clearly not a Western style at all, are we to assume that just means this is a 50/50 grind and not a single bevel? Very oddly worded for such a NON western looking knife.
"The steel is laminated with multiple layers, so the external layers make it easier to sharpen when it comes time"
First, can you tell us the type of steel used in the outer layers?
Second, how does that have anything to do with making it easier to sharpen?
In my experience, best case scenario is that it has no effect at all on sharpening, since the lamination line should be well above the edge.
Worst case scenario, once you've sharpened the knife enough times that you start losing blade height, you then have to thin the blade to push back the lamination line away from the edge again.
If it's a good, hard enough steel, then this is no different than thinning any monosteel knife. But if it's a softer steel, it can be a hassle as it gums up the stones.
Neither is a huge deal, it's just part of maintaining a knife, just curious to know which it would be ahead of time.
Danzman
14
Dec 28, 2018
isn't ZDP-189 stainless steel one of the hardest stainless steel to sharpen and keep from rusting ? almost compared to Aogami blue paper steel how does this knife fair ?
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
Dec 29, 2018
DanzmanHey - thanks for your question! ZDP-189 is definitely an interesting piece of steel. We like it a lot for its insane edge retention and ease of maintenance. It is much more rust resistant than the Aogami blue (or any other high-carbon steels), but also less than the more common and softer VG-10 steel. We dont hear problems from customers, and also from our own usage, that the knives would get rust on it. It is a precise and delicate tool, so it is not recommended for some tasks (eg cutting hard stuff - frozen food, cheese, crusty bread) as it can chip, but for normal veggie chopping and meat slicing it's our favorite steel.
Regarding sharpening ZDP-189 steel - it's not as difficult as some critics say, we think some extra effort when sharpening is a good trade of for a much longer edge retention. I'd say it is a bit more difficult to sharpen than the VG-10 steel. Aogami and other high-carbon steels are a different story, those are the easiest to resharpen, but need much more maintenance to keep them from rusting. If you dont have a ZDP-189 knife yet, give it a try!
theMZA
41
Nov 9, 2018
65-67 HRc??? Are you sure Massdrop? If so this knife will be incredibly brittle. That's almost ceramic hardness
Notsurewhyibother
1200
Nov 9, 2018
It's definitely an odd duck of a steel. Extremely hard and has more toughness than you would expect at extremely high hardness but it's also far less stain resistant than the high chromium content would suggest.
I'm certainly no smithy or otherwise trained in the metallurgic arts, but I believe I've read that the large dose of chromium and carbon work together to allow the relative toughness while still holding a very fine edge at high hardness, but the chromium is bound up in the carbides and therefore not very stainless.
Kavik
5531
Dec 8, 2018
Ugh.... Just got a "this is going to ship late" notice......was expecting to have it for christmas 😩
@sharpedge
Do you have any more info than what MD provided as to the nature of the delay?
Or realistically if it can still be expected before christmas, or if i need to make other plans now?
Kavik
5531
Dec 29, 2018
Lol I'm not with the company, just another MD member who was in on the drop.
I think you meant this comments for @sharpedge 😉👍
If I may say though, that's a very nice gift for your mom! good son 😁
(Edited)
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
Dec 29, 2018
Thank you, Im glad to hear you and your mom like the knife, and our service! 😊
Dan-the-Man
3
Mar 21, 2019
Does anyone know how far the blade tang extends into the handle? This is a major factor in if the knife will have to eventually be rehandled. A full tangled blade is much stronger but some prefer the balance of a partially tanged knife at the expense of handle strength.
sharpedge
220
SharpEdge
Mar 22, 2019
Dan-the-ManHi Dan, thanks for your question. As with most Japanese knives with traditional wooden handles, this Bunka also has a partial tang, it extends to around 3/4 of the handle. You can see size of the partial tang on this photo.
Best,
Grega
MarPabl
1088
Oct 15, 2020
@sharpedge can you share instructions for sharpening with the Work Sharp Ken Onion? https://www.worksharptools.com/ken-onion-edition-knife-tool-sharpener.html
I'm also wondering if this knife is very brittle so I can't cut like 🥕 for example... and if that's the case, what's the steel type you would recommend for that.
(Edited)
Major_Infidel
316
Oct 19, 2020
When discussing cutlery steels, traditionally it was more correct to describe toughness as being inversely proportional with strength rather than edge retention. A minor, but important point.
Of course, newer technologies like powder metallurgy have turned the old rules on their ear. We see this with steels like CPM-3V where an exceptional balance of both toughness and strength allow for knives to be produced with thinner edges possessing a high degree of stability and resistance to deflection.
MarPabl
1088
Oct 19, 2020
MarPablThank you all for the comments 😁 my concern was because when I was comparing steels
Soko
224
Jul 20, 2020
This looks like a great buy for butchering the aristocracy and Ivory tower management class complicit in subjugating the proletariat.
lukig
11
Apr 6, 2020
Hi guys,
I have a little bit more time because coronavirus.
So I decided to some thinning on my wife old zdp189 bunka knife.
I am using Suehiro wet stones to create kasumi finish. Now it looks better than new and sharpness:):) incredible:)
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