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Zhen VG-10 Damascus Kitchen Knives
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Zhen VG-10 Damascus Kitchen Knives
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Product Description
The story of damascus steel dates back more than 2,000 years. Believed to have originated in India, it’s made by folding many layers of steel together in a unique pattern Read More
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keyboard_arrow_downKrustyboomer
71
Nov 18, 2017
I flat out REFUSE to buy any knife calling itself "damascus", unless it says damascus "pattern" or similar. It's a BS marketing term at this point. NOTHING is true damascus at this point. And no, pattern welded IS NOT damascus.
Not to say Damascus strength is mythical anymore, many modern steels are stronger/better anyway.
True damascus was formed from a SINGLE billet and the patterns precipitated as hard carbide "lines" during working/heat treating. Some of the carbides were even true carbon nanotubes. That's how true damascus got its super hard edge. CARBIDES, not the steel itself.
Not to say Damascus strength is mythical anymore, many modern steels are stronger/better anyway.
True damascus was formed from a SINGLE billet and the patterns precipitated as hard carbide "lines" during working/heat treating. Some of the carbides were even true carbon nanotubes. That's how true damascus got its super hard edge. CARBIDES, not the steel itself.
Fowler
40
Jan 9, 2018
KrustyboomerCarbides are part of "the steel itself." In ancient damascus, you had small levels of vanadium etc. to control grain growth, but the primary carbide is still just iron carbide aka cementite. Some of these ended up forming nanowires etc., but as far as I know it's very contested as to whether or not those structures are at all unique to damascus steel or other folded steels.
Krustyboomer
71
Jan 9, 2018
FowlerIt's the growth of EXCESS carbides of unique and large shapes that help define Damascus. The fact remains pattern welding IS NOT Damascus. Plain and simple. False advertising.
MonkeyBoy54321
102
Nov 19, 2017
Why are people obsessed with true "Damascus steel?" Modern steel is better and I'm pretty sure the word "Damascus" refers to the pattern, not the steel type. I mean it says VG-10 for fucks sake. Don't let the "not true Damascus steel" comments deter you from buying the knives. They have good reviews on Amazon and are cheaper here. For example,
ZHEN Japanese VG-10 67 Layers Damascus Steel Chef Knife 8-inch Cutlery https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CRVYJSY/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_8aqeAbMV24QTH
I say go for it. I bought the santoku knife.
I say go for it. I bought the santoku knife.
theMZA
41
Jan 7, 2018
if it can out perform, then why does the american bladesmith society require a damascus steel forging for their most intensive knife test? Not saying modern monosteel isnt great, 52100 is incredible stuff, but generally composites are more advanced materials and a damascus steel is like a composite.
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS%20Test%20FINAL%204-24-2010.pdf
http://www.americanbladesmith.com/uploads/file/Testing/MS%20Test%20FINAL%204-24-2010.pdf
LoremicusIpsuminus
57
Jan 8, 2018
theMZAPerformance is a very broad term. It could be cutting, edge stability, toughness or even corrosion resistance and so on. As we are talking about kitchen cutlery here I assume we are talking about kitchen work, which involved cutting a lot of soft material, and we ain't butchering much.
Factors affecting cutting performance in descending important: blade geometry, heat treatment, blade hardness and abrasion resistance. Here, we have a dilemma: do we want an easy to sharpen knife that takes a fine edge on a thin stock? Or a thicker blade requiring less maintenance, but cut worse? Only then we would consider the steel of choice. I prefer monosteel because when they are heat treated well, it is just so predictable, and overall performance is constant, yet my main concern - because I am lazy - is corrosion resistance. My Skyline would rust randomly. Some say a compromise would be laminated steel (much more consistent). Yet I still prefer monosteel because I am lazy. This is the performance I ask for, maybe not everyone. I admire people using carbon steel kitchen knife.
ABS is a test of the smith's skill, that include ductility as well - which is not really required if we are talking about 3" pocket knife. Again I prefer AEB-L over 52100 because 52100 would rust if you watch Waterworld with it. NASA replaced 52100 with Z-Finit/LC200N for ball bearing AFAIK,
Factors affecting cutting performance in descending important: blade geometry, heat treatment, blade hardness and abrasion resistance. Here, we have a dilemma: do we want an easy to sharpen knife that takes a fine edge on a thin stock? Or a thicker blade requiring less maintenance, but cut worse? Only then we would consider the steel of choice. I prefer monosteel because when they are heat treated well, it is just so predictable, and overall performance is constant, yet my main concern - because I am lazy - is corrosion resistance. My Skyline would rust randomly. Some say a compromise would be laminated steel (much more consistent). Yet I still prefer monosteel because I am lazy. This is the performance I ask for, maybe not everyone. I admire people using carbon steel kitchen knife.
ABS is a test of the smith's skill, that include ductility as well - which is not really required if we are talking about 3" pocket knife. Again I prefer AEB-L over 52100 because 52100 would rust if you watch Waterworld with it. NASA replaced 52100 with Z-Finit/LC200N for ball bearing AFAIK,
Fowler
40
Nov 18, 2017
The description doesn't really make sense. Pattern welded steel requires two types of steel, and folding a modern alloy won't result in differential wear/corrosion, so either this is VG10 clad in Damascus (as is typical) or it's VG10 and some other steel, in which case what's the other steel?
MarcusK
25
May 26, 2018
so does that mean, its still sort of 3 ply? or is it actually 33 layers of steel, folded into one layer???
Krustyboomer
71
May 29, 2018
MarcusKI think you are mixing the two. San mai is the "final" method of constructing the blade. Hard inner core (usually carbon steel but not always) with nicer looking "taco" cladding, many times stainless for looks/ease of care. There could still be many layers within the billets that form the final san mai taco. In fact that is how you get the watermarks/nice patterns on the outside. That's the pattern welding part, NOT the san mai. The san mai only gets you the SINGLE line delineating the different billets.
Here you see a simple san mai with darker carbon steel core.
Now contrast a san mai knife WITH pattern welding in outer billet (i.e. FAKE Damascus).
Here you see a simple san mai with darker carbon steel core.
Now contrast a san mai knife WITH pattern welding in outer billet (i.e. FAKE Damascus).
xiaoqiz
89
Nov 19, 2017
To me one reason for buying Japanese knife is their knife-making history, particularly the technique borrowed from making katana. Could anyone educate me on the reasonableness of buying a Taiwanese made Japanese knife which doesn't bear such technical history?
xiaoqiz
89
Nov 19, 2017
It doesn't if they both come out of factories using roughly identical techniques. I'm not an expert on knife making but what about handmade ones?
Bobert
46
Nov 20, 2017
xiaoqizI'm actually waiting on two handmade knives, but they are far more expensive than most factory knives. I've already paid for one of them and it was over $2k. That being said neither of the makers have any family history of knife making, but they are both on their way to becoming masters of their craft if not masters already.
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theMZA
41
Mar 12, 2018
Once again, the 5 inch santoku is shown on the drop page as an option, but not available when i go to join the drop. This same thing happened last time and I notified mass drop of the inaccuracy. How does it not get fixed next time the drop goes live??? It's annoying, because that is the only knife shown that i want to purchase.
gardey
90
Nov 19, 2017
Everyone seems to be disappointed by other things while I'm amused by "slippery and hot kitchen. "
theMZA
41
Aug 15, 2018
The 5 inch santoku option is not listed. Is it already sold out or is it missing by accident?
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